In-process scans, restoring reused weatherstrips, removing wheels: More DEG estimating tips

Audatex: Weld-through primer on ‘little brackets’ not included

The DEG in January drew focus on a current clarification by Audatex on when weld-through primer wasn’t included in a labor time.

A DEG user in December 2021 cited Audatex’s Database Reference Manual Section 4-2, which lists “Restoration of corrosion-protective coatings ” among the items Audatex considers not-included.

However, the user noticed that Section 4-3 from the DBRM P-pages lists applying weld-through primer to welded areas as included labor in “some Major welded panel operations.”

“Will the ‘Zinc Coating’ apply to Zinc weld thru primer?” the consumer asked about a 2021 Toyota Camry. “… Does this logic also affect every small welded on bracket / reinforcement that's replaced as stand alone operations and never specifically called out in 4-3?”

Audatex confirmed the weld-through primer wouldn’t be included in those situations.

“We have reviewed weld thru primer and based on our internal guidelines the only real parts that includes the use of weld thru primer are those listed in DBRM sec 4-3 that included this operation,” Audatex wrote. “Little brackets don't include this operation. No change warranted this time.”

Mitchell: Time for you to get part back to ‘undamaged’ not included

DEG Administrator Danny Gredinberg in a Jan. 25 video tip explained that simply substituting an remove and replace time for an remove and install amount of time in Mitchell might not be accurate in all situations.

The video highlighted a Jan. 14 DEG inquiry from the user seeking to reuse a door weatherstrip on a 2021 Chevrolet Silverado.

“When taking out the door weather strip a few of the clips break,” the user wrote. “Is the labor to repair and switch the existing weather strip with new clips included with the remove and install of the weather strip?”

The user estimated this time at 0.3 hours.

“Mitchell does not publish an R&I labor allowance with this weather strip,” Mitchell wrote. Additionally, it observed that typically, “a cab/door weatherstrip will not have a unique R&I Headnote.”

Mitchell wrote and Gredinberg demonstrated within the video how a user could switch the weatherstrip operation from R&R to R&I. The Mitchell software puts an “r” next to the 0.5-hour labor some time and an explainer stating “CEG R&R Time Used For This Labor Operation.”

“This is a really critical idea right here,” Gredinberg says within the video. In times where “you need to rebuild” the component, the R&R moment substituted won’t include time spent obtaining the reused part back to the condition of a new part, he said.

Mitchell in the inquiry mentioned towards the user that it is P-Pages define R&R because the time to “switch the part or assembly with a new one” and base labor times on “REPLACEMENT WITH NEW, UNDAMAGED PARTS FROM THE VEHICLE MANUFACTURER ON A NEW, UNDAMAGED VEHICLE.”

“So, if the decision has been created to re-use a part, and that part isn't within an ‘undamaged’ condition, then any additional time needed to make the part suitable for re-use has not been factored into the Replace time,” Mitchell wrote.

Scanning midway through repair

Sometimes, it won’t be enough to pre-repair and post-repair scan an automobile. Sometime you need to scan midway via a repair.

“As an example, this operation may be required after reenergizing a hybrid/ electric vehicle in the center of a repair process to continue repairs from the vehicle before the final reassembly, and post- repair scan,” the DEG wrote inside a Feb. 1 tip.

The DEG called CCC the only estimating system as of that could indicat have an database option for an in-process scan. “All three information providers consider this step to become NOT INCLUDED,” the DEG wrote.

CCC defines the word as “Any scan completed after pre-repair scan and before post-repair scan,” it told a person who’d inquired about such scanning on the 2021 Buick Encore in a Jan. 15 inquiry.

CCC on recycled fenders and liners

A Feb. 22 DEG tip reported an upcoming CCC update would this fall adjust RACED Help guide to Estimating language associated with fender liners.

A user on Feb. 4 had submitted an inquiry about all 2021 Chevrolets which asked CCC to update the RACED used vehicle estimating P-pages Fender Group entry.

“Since RCY Fenders NEVER come with Fender Liners already attached as an Assembly,” the consumer wrote. “This creates confusion and then get interpreted as the fender liner labor would still be included and treated like a new part. Problems in later life the RACED Guide Assembly on historical cars where you can remove a fender with a liner attached and the liner accustomed to have a RCY fender as an assembly. On Modern cars this is never the situation.”

They suggested new language or explaining that recycled fenders lack liners “and that fender liner R/I from the original damage vehicle or R/R isn't factored into RCY RACED Consideration. The language update could be helpful as language has been mixed between RACED guide components that do not come just as the RACED Guides logic then being expected to be used in NEW R/R times.”

CCC said some recycled fenders can certainly have liners, but it felt marketplace lacked consistency.

“After doing a study of how recycled/LKQ Fenders are being sold from recyclers through the entire country, the statement the Fender Liner ‘NEVER’ has the Fender isn't true,” CCC wrote. “The way the Fender comes is dependent on whether the Fender Liner is undamaged, the recycler’s business practices, or if the repair facility requests it when ordered . Because of those variables, MOTOR will update the GTE within the next scheduled update within the fall of 2021 to mirror the Fender Liner to not be included in the way the assembly is serviced.”

Removing wheels to get to bumper

If you need to take the wheels off for access when attemping to remove a bumper, it’s only likely to be contained in one estimating system. And even then, it’s not a given.

“CCC and Mitchell have confirmed that Labor to R/I wheels to gain access to bumper removal is NOT INCLUDED,” the DEG wrote in a March 1 tip. “Its vital that you always reference the specific vehicle chapter footnotes to verify if any sort of operations are included.

“Audatex may or may not include wheel r/I labor. Always reference the estimate Labor Report.”

A DEG user on Dec. 8, 2021, described an estimate stating “R&I’ing the wheel assembly, inner fender liners, and wheel opening molding would really incorporated with removing the front and rear bumper covers” on a 2021 Lincoln MKX.

“We can't replicate the concern and need to verify if this is actually included in bumpers front and back ,” the user wrote.

Mitchell said no. “Per p-page for front and rear bumpers, removing and installing the wheel is not factored in to the R&I Bumper labor allowance,” the information provider wrote. Additionally, it said the inner fender liners and wheel molding weren’t included either.

“It would be noted when they were,” Mitchell wrote.

CCC confirmed wheel removal for access would be a manual addition in reaction to a “settle a bet”-type inquiry submitted to the DEG Feb. 15.

“SHOP WROTE TO R&I WHEELS To gain access to LINERS And take away FRONT BUMPER COVER,” the consumer wrote about a 2021 Ford Explorer. “INSURANCE STATED THAT BECAUSE R&I WHEELS Is roofed WITH CCC PROCEDURES, LABOR INCLUDES TO R&I WHEELS. P-PAGES DO NOT STATE IF R&I WHEELS Is roofed WITH FRONT BUMPER OVERHAUL.”

“After overview of your concern, the R&I of Wheel is ‘Not Included’ with Overhaul of Front Bumper,” CCC wrote.

Have an issue?

Have an issue about AudaExplore, Mitchell or CCC? Submit inquiries towards the DEG here. Inquiries and responses are free.